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Joshua Landis has had a life-long relationship with Syria, thanks to a childhood spent in Lebanon, two fulbright years in Syria, and countless trips. He is the Co-director at the Center of Peace Studies at the University of Oklahoma, and a widely-read blogger at Syria Comment.

I recently caught up with Joshua by phone while he was sitting on an airplane waiting for take-off. We talked about all things Syria-the current regime, the Syrian personality, the upcoming Annapolis peace talks, the Iraqi refugee situation in Syria, and the best things about Damascus. I’ve included the transcript here, or you can listen to the complete audio file by clicking on the link below.

You have a life-long relationship with Syria. What is it about Syria that you appreciate and admire?

Syria is one of the most unknown places in the Arab world. It still has much of the best of the Arab world It’s exotic, on the one hand. On the other, its modern, it’s multi-ethnic and secular in some ways. It’s just this multitude-and nobody really exactly tells you what’s on their mind. Everybody kind of keeps their cards close to their chest.

I was just there and that’s exactly what I noticed. I wasn’t sure if I was making that up in my head because I was so inexperienced with the people there or if that was something that was part of their nature or political reasons or what.

Part of its politics and part of it is social because there’s so many people living side by side. Its sort of an Ottoman place with all these ethnic groups and strange religious communities. And they don’t necessarily think highly of each other. They all get along, on a superficial level, as long as there’s order imposed on them, but they don’t always think highly of each other’s religion or habits. They whole place could blow apart easily. National identity in a Syrian way is just starting g to form. Of course, there’s an Arab identity, but many people are not Arabs there. But Syrian identity, national identity is just beginning to form, really. And all these different groups are starting to feel kinship.

That’s a really interesting thing you bring up, because when we would talk to people, they would say, “We’re all Syrians, we all get along,” it seemed like they did have a national identity. Were they just saying that?

In terms of foreign policy, they do share a lot. They want the Golan back, they don’t like that Israel booted out the Palestinians, and they generally agree on Lebanon, that it shouldn’t be too distant from Syria. The Arab-ness is a big common bond, and that fact that they oppose America’s invasion of Iraq, so forth. Beyond that, there’s tons of disagreements. The Sunnis think that the Shiites and the various heterodox groups are lost and are gonna go to hell, they all look askance at the Christians and think they all are looking more to the West than being really Arabs. On that level, there are deep suspicions. And on the part of the government, you don’t talk to anybody; you don’t let your real feelings be known unless you’re family, or somebody you’ve known for a really long time.

My other question about the regime in Syria right now is, the current regime says they’re interested in opening up society and I think the current president is responsible for bringing the Internet to Syria.

They’re definitely opening up; modernizing is probably the word you want to use. They’re clearly in modernizing mode, and that means opening up. But they have tight political control, and anyone in opposition gets let known very quickly that they shouldn’t be doing that or if they persist, they will go to jail. It really depends on what you think of democracy in a place like Syria. If you think it’s socially prepared for democracy, then I guess you become a big advocate. I think many people in Syria don’t believe they are ready for democracy or that they would turn into Iraq or that society might fall apart.

Have they seen the amount of Iraqi refugees that the government has allowed into the country as going against the idea of security?

These are their Arab brothers, they are co nationals in an Arab homeland. The first article of the Syrian constitution says that Syria is a region of the Arab nation, and its borders in a sense are illegitimate. And it should be part of this area that stretches from Iraq to Egypt and North Africa. And therefore, these Iraqis are nationals. So to deny them entry, means in a sense, to put pay to this Baathist, nationalist ideology, and say that welfare of Syrians comes over the welfare of Arabs. And that’s a big statement. Everybody knows it on some level, but it’s not official policy, its not ideology. So Syria is shifting in a sense, towards Syrian nationalism. Saying, “we’re going to take care of our own first, and let the devil take the Iraqis.”

It seems like Syria got a lot of criticism from the U.S. for allowing so many Iraqis in, but it seems like they were responding to a humanitarian crisis.

They got criticism for not turning over Iraqis that America wanted to put into Guantanamo. I think they happy for them to take the big masses, but they anted to Baathists and other elite people who had some information about the opposition to be turned over to the tender mercies of the Americans. They wouldn’t do that. Of course, America wasn’t in the mood to make a deal with Syria, which is what Syria was waiting for.

I heard yesterday that Syria will take part in the Annapolis Peace Talks in Maryland. Is this a nod in the right direction in improving relations between the two countries?

Evidently, according to one insider, there was blood on the floor of whether to invite the Syrians to Maryland. And they Syrians will be invited and they are interested in coming. But of course, they want Golan to be part of the peace process, and the Americans do not. They want the Syrians to come and essentially rubber stamp and approve of the American policy of bolstering the Palestinians and the West Bank and stymieing Hamas. Now, of course Hamas is traditionally Syria’s ally.

And not to bring up any issues important to Syria, like the Golan.

Syria is negotiating how much those issues will be brought up. Now the Americans don’t want Golan to be a focus of the negotiations, they want the focus to be on the Palestinians, but they are negotiating how the Golan will be brought up-will it be at the next meeting? Because the Syrians won’t go..Unless they get some confirmation that it’s going to be moved up in importance.

Have you heard any updates on what is going on with the Sept. 6 air strike in Syria?
It does remain a mystery and all three countries, Syria the U.S and Israel don’t want anything aired. Of course, the U.S and Israel insist there was some kind of nuclear plant being built, with North Korean technology. Now the IAEA is very skeptical of these claims…so there’s great debate over whether this was nuclear or not.

Why a blog about Syria?
It started as a lark..It now gets around 2,000 hits a day, but when there is a bombing, it will go as high as 4 or 5,000. It has around 2,000 readers a day. Many are “high quality” readers if you will…from intelligence, the state department, diplomats from capitals around the world, and sort of keep tabs on what’s happening through it. As an academic it’s a bonanza for me…it’s fun and useful to people, and in terms of keeping my hand in the policy world. It’s been fun…

On a personal note, do you have any favorite places in Syria, say in Damascus, any favorite memories?

The old city in Damascus can’t be beat. Damascus and Aleppo both are old cities and have so many architectural treasures and history and a diverse ethnic mosaic that still lives there sort of reminds you of the Ottoman period, still living in close quarters. You find this very exotic past still there. That’s not gonna last forever. And the people are fascinating because they come from every weird group and they all have different opinions, and trying to figure out how a place like that works is a real challenge and it needs to be done… Because America has demonized Syria.. and you feel like the world needs to be educated a bit.

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